In a candid conversation with Simon Gérard, Victor Unwin reveals how books became a key realm for experimentation in his artistic journey. From creating KERMESSE to spearheading bold projects such as SUNFLOWERS, their collaboration transcends traditional media, by merging video, installations, and publishing to explore innovative narrative structures. This dialogue highlights how Victor shapes space-time through his work, encouraging us to contemplate the fluidity of art forms and the creation of new dimensions of expression.
NEW FORMS NEED NEW STRUCTURE
SG(K) In 2021, I founded KERMESSE, an independent publishing house specializing in contemporary creation, just as you were delving deeper into your own artistic journey. Being one of my closest friends, we decided to create a book together, the first for the publishing house. Since MONO, we've gone on to release three additional books, including limited editions and artist editions. While it may seem serendipitous, the book format seems to be an ideal medium for your creative expression.
VU I collect art and artists' books as much as you do. We also share a mutual taste for iconography, comprehensive art catalogs and literary curiosities, not to mention binding techniques and printing methods. Although I discovered the art of book making by chance, I absolutely love it. I would also add that it has been particularly liberating for me at this stage in my artistic journey. MONO was really the ideal testing ground.
SG(K) A carte blanche monograph, pure and simple. The perfect endeavor for both a young publisher and a young artist.
VU Clearly. At the time, I was grappling with the images I was producing, attempting to make films. Unlike other mediums I held in higher esteem, a book provided me with the freedom to experiment and explore alternative artistic paths more rapidly. In just two days, I was able to craft a beautiful object, alleviating some of my frustration in the process.
SG(K) I remember that two years ago, we spontaneously came up with the idea for your book Monster, during a production residency in the Périgord region for your film SUNFLOWERS. We had attended a rather uneventful car show where you filmed the entire thing. The following day, it became apparent that we needed a creative outlet on paper before diving back into the exhaustive process of filmmaking. The book became a welcome escape, a project that consumed far less time than your labor-intensive film—a sort of journey into another dimension of space-time.
VU Video is as central to my work as it is to my life. I produce a multitude of images daily, without really knowing where they will lead me, but I’m confident that I will return to them someday. These images are stored and later interconnected through non-linear narrative systems and complex networks of symbolism – a process that takes a very long time. Creating books has allowed me to produce a tangible work more rapidly and avoid the frustration of projects that take a long time to materialize, while providing a genuine and deliberate framework for my images.
SG(K) When you talk about legitimacy, we understand that everything you do has to make sense. I have the feeling that your approach to book publishing is also possible because you establish a strong systemic connection between each of your productions, whether it's a sculpture, an installation, an art object or a printed work. If we were to describe your work, we could say that you integrate images into dedicated systems.
VU Yes, it's not always the most straightforward method, but it's what I tend to gravitate towards. While I've recently begun scripting my films to anticipate their visual content, I've always generated images without predetermined uses in mind. I have little control over the reality I capture on film, and I'm never certain how events will unfold. Sometimes, an image emerges as a standalone work of art; other times, its significance becomes apparent only when combined with different ideas. And occasionally, external images breathe new life into my creations, resulting in hybrid compositions. It's an enormous undertaking! Over the years, I have accumulated thousands of rushes and references, often losing myself in them, yet certain images seem to resonate more readily than others.
SG(K) This is where the notion of protocol comes into play in your work, isn't it? It serves as a system of simple rules that, once established, autonomously generate determinations—thus providing the guiding thread for your work.
VU Absolutely. Protocol not only defines a space but also provides a framework. Without it, projects like SUNFLOWERS could never have existed, for example.
SG(K) Can you tell us more about this production? It's a monumental project that I can't remember the beginning of, and which is only just wrapping up today.
VU I began working on SUNFLOWERS in 2020, while traveling, at a time when I was filming groups of friends for several hours a day, until they forgot that the camera was in their field of vision. I systematically filmed everything, with no limits in terms of privacy or confidentiality. I ended up with a huge number of infinitely precious images, with the particular grain of the Handycam that I carried everywhere with me. When I returned to France, my reflections led to various ideas for artistic endeavors, none of which felt entirely convincing: a feature film, several short films, a surf part... Attempts at editing proved chaotic and unpalatable. I also toyed with the idea of a monumental book featuring hundreds of risograph prints, called ‘Why did you do this to me, Stan?’ in reference to the one shot I was reluctantly compelled to delete from my camera.
SG(K) The project hasn't been abandoned. It's just on hold. [laughs]
VU We'll get there, but at the time, the idea was to solve a problem rather than create a new one. And that's where a production protocol came in. I'd been wanting to experiment with VHS for some time, a format and medium that held childhood memories for both of us as well as a naive aesthetic.
SG(K) We went to a few flea markets, bought a cathode-ray tube, a VCR, some cables...
VU And we got to work. I created a range of preedited shots and sequences that we recorded on VHS, carefully selected for what they portrayed, both in terms of content and as objects from the past linked to family, local and personal stories. The editing was done directly via a VCR connected to the cathode-ray tube and a computer. Layers of narration with hypnotic complexity emerged.
SG(K) "Hypnotic" describes it perfectly. Each VHS tape served as the support for your images, while simultaneously creating new ones through the already-used magnetic tapes. We rushed through a staggering whirlwind of sequences until we were exhausted... but that's what the film's about.
VU Absolutely! In terms of narrative, SUNFLOWERS can ultimately be seen as a kind of meditative walk on the verge of two complementary and intertwined territories. All the images in the film revolve around a young, candid figure capable of passing from the world of the dead to that of the living. Through the variation of aesthetics, color treatments, characters, sounds and space-time, I tried to create a narrative that is both fluid and quite complex, layered with symbolism. For me, this approach was the best way to reconcile the images with the way they had been produced and assembled. Even today, the project remains enigmatic, and I regularly find new elements in it that I'd never noticed before.
SG(K) This is also evident from the fact that SUNFLOWERS now takes on several different forms.
VU Yes, the project has primarily evolved into a multi-screen video installation. The juxtaposition of three screens offered me a fresh perspective: the inability to take in everything at once provided a deeper insight into the film's subject matter. At the same time, I produced a series of prints on glass entitled SUNFLOWERS STUDIES, after meticulously sorting through thousands of stills from the VHS to showcase the boundless narrative potential of these images... And of course, the seventeen VHS tapes have become artist editions slated for publication this year by KERMESSE, the production company behind the film. Each stage of work on this project feels akin to producing a full-fledged film. And there's potential for more to come, in the form of paper prints, limited editions, and perhaps even a book. SUNFLOWERS serves as a master file, from which one can continually draw and enrich elements.
SG(K) Through this project, we can draw a parallel between your creative process and the way in which our collaboration is evolving, as we continue coming up with new structures capable of channeling innovative expression.
VU Yes, our relationship as artist and publisher transcends mere professional roles—it's a dynamic exchange marked by continuous communication, research and experimentation. Our individual interests ultimately intersect, with our projects mutually enhancing one another. While we often discuss structures, foundations, and protocols—essentially, a mechanical system for creation—our relationship thrives on fluidity. This fluid approach extends to our work and interactions with others. It's a dynamic that simply wouldn't function any other way.
SG(K) It has to be organic.
In a candid conversation with Simon Gérard, Victor Unwin reveals how books became a key realm for experimentation in his artistic journey. From creating KERMESSE to spearheading bold projects such as SUNFLOWERS, their collaboration transcends traditional media, by merging video, installations, and publishing to explore innovative narrative structures. This dialogue highlights how Victor shapes space-time through his work, encouraging us to contemplate the fluidity of art forms and the creation of new dimensions of expression.
NEW FORMS NEED NEW STRUCTURE
SG(K) In 2021, I founded KERMESSE, an independent publishing house specializing in contemporary creation, just as you were delving deeper into your own artistic journey. Being one of my closest friends, we decided to create a book together, the first for the publishing house. Since MONO, we've gone on to release three additional books, including limited editions and artist editions. While it may seem serendipitous, the book format seems to be an ideal medium for your creative expression.
VU I collect art and artists' books as much as you do. We also share a mutual taste for iconography, comprehensive art catalogs and literary curiosities, not to mention binding techniques and printing methods. Although I discovered the art of book making by chance, I absolutely love it. I would also add that it has been particularly liberating for me at this stage in my artistic journey. MONO was really the ideal testing ground.
SG(K) A carte blanche monograph, pure and simple. The perfect endeavor for both a young publisher and a young artist.
VU Clearly. At the time, I was grappling with the images I was producing, attempting to make films. Unlike other mediums I held in higher esteem, a book provided me with the freedom to experiment and explore alternative artistic paths more rapidly. In just two days, I was able to craft a beautiful object, alleviating some of my frustration in the process.
SG(K) I remember that two years ago, we spontaneously came up with the idea for your book Monster, during a production residency in the Périgord region for your film SUNFLOWERS. We had attended a rather uneventful car show where you filmed the entire thing. The following day, it became apparent that we needed a creative outlet on paper before diving back into the exhaustive process of filmmaking. The book became a welcome escape, a project that consumed far less time than your labor-intensive film—a sort of journey into another dimension of space-time.
VU Video is as central to my work as it is to my life. I produce a multitude of images daily, without really knowing where they will lead me, but I’m confident that I will return to them someday. These images are stored and later interconnected through non-linear narrative systems and complex networks of symbolism – a process that takes a very long time. Creating books has allowed me to produce a tangible work more rapidly and avoid the frustration of projects that take a long time to materialize, while providing a genuine and deliberate framework for my images.
SG(K) When you talk about legitimacy, we understand that everything you do has to make sense. I have the feeling that your approach to book publishing is also possible because you establish a strong systemic connection between each of your productions, whether it's a sculpture, an installation, an art object or a printed work. If we were to describe your work, we could say that you integrate images into dedicated systems.
VU Yes, it's not always the most straightforward method, but it's what I tend to gravitate towards. While I've recently begun scripting my films to anticipate their visual content, I've always generated images without predetermined uses in mind. I have little control over the reality I capture on film, and I'm never certain how events will unfold. Sometimes, an image emerges as a standalone work of art; other times, its significance becomes apparent only when combined with different ideas. And occasionally, external images breathe new life into my creations, resulting in hybrid compositions. It's an enormous undertaking! Over the years, I have accumulated thousands of rushes and references, often losing myself in them, yet certain images seem to resonate more readily than others.
SG(K) This is where the notion of protocol comes into play in your work, isn't it? It serves as a system of simple rules that, once established, autonomously generate determinations—thus providing the guiding thread for your work.
VU Absolutely. Protocol not only defines a space but also provides a framework. Without it, projects like SUNFLOWERS could never have existed, for example.
SG(K) Can you tell us more about this production? It's a monumental project that I can't remember the beginning of, and which is only just wrapping up today.
VU I began working on SUNFLOWERS in 2020, while traveling, at a time when I was filming groups of friends for several hours a day, until they forgot that the camera was in their field of vision. I systematically filmed everything, with no limits in terms of privacy or confidentiality. I ended up with a huge number of infinitely precious images, with the particular grain of the Handycam that I carried everywhere with me. When I returned to France, my reflections led to various ideas for artistic endeavors, none of which felt entirely convincing: a feature film, several short films, a surf part... Attempts at editing proved chaotic and unpalatable. I also toyed with the idea of a monumental book featuring hundreds of risograph prints, called ‘Why did you do this to me, Stan?’ in reference to the one shot I was reluctantly compelled to delete from my camera.
SG(K) The project hasn't been abandoned. It's just on hold. [laughs]
VU We'll get there, but at the time, the idea was to solve a problem rather than create a new one. And that's where a production protocol came in. I'd been wanting to experiment with VHS for some time, a format and medium that held childhood memories for both of us as well as a naive aesthetic.
SG(K) We went to a few flea markets, bought a cathode-ray tube, a VCR, some cables...
VU And we got to work. I created a range of preedited shots and sequences that we recorded on VHS, carefully selected for what they portrayed, both in terms of content and as objects from the past linked to family, local and personal stories. The editing was done directly via a VCR connected to the cathode-ray tube and a computer. Layers of narration with hypnotic complexity emerged.
SG(K) "Hypnotic" describes it perfectly. Each VHS tape served as the support for your images, while simultaneously creating new ones through the already-used magnetic tapes. We rushed through a staggering whirlwind of sequences until we were exhausted... but that's what the film's about.
VU Absolutely! In terms of narrative, SUNFLOWERS can ultimately be seen as a kind of meditative walk on the verge of two complementary and intertwined territories. All the images in the film revolve around a young, candid figure capable of passing from the world of the dead to that of the living. Through the variation of aesthetics, color treatments, characters, sounds and space-time, I tried to create a narrative that is both fluid and quite complex, layered with symbolism. For me, this approach was the best way to reconcile the images with the way they had been produced and assembled. Even today, the project remains enigmatic, and I regularly find new elements in it that I'd never noticed before.
SG(K) This is also evident from the fact that SUNFLOWERS now takes on several different forms.
VU Yes, the project has primarily evolved into a multi-screen video installation. The juxtaposition of three screens offered me a fresh perspective: the inability to take in everything at once provided a deeper insight into the film's subject matter. At the same time, I produced a series of prints on glass entitled SUNFLOWERS STUDIES, after meticulously sorting through thousands of stills from the VHS to showcase the boundless narrative potential of these images... And of course, the seventeen VHS tapes have become artist editions slated for publication this year by KERMESSE, the production company behind the film. Each stage of work on this project feels akin to producing a full-fledged film. And there's potential for more to come, in the form of paper prints, limited editions, and perhaps even a book. SUNFLOWERS serves as a master file, from which one can continually draw and enrich elements.
SG(K) Through this project, we can draw a parallel between your creative process and the way in which our collaboration is evolving, as we continue coming up with new structures capable of channeling innovative expression.
VU Yes, our relationship as artist and publisher transcends mere professional roles—it's a dynamic exchange marked by continuous communication, research and experimentation. Our individual interests ultimately intersect, with our projects mutually enhancing one another. While we often discuss structures, foundations, and protocols—essentially, a mechanical system for creation—our relationship thrives on fluidity. This fluid approach extends to our work and interactions with others. It's a dynamic that simply wouldn't function any other way.
SG(K) It has to be organic.